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Author Topic: Uh Oh  (Read 1251 times)

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Offline Blaster_Bretty

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Uh Oh
« on: Mon 18 Sep 08:08 2017 »
poor boat had been sittin idle for a month or 2!  pulled her out and fired her into life, everything went great, started first turn of the key, gears selected good and water pumpin where it should be!
next thing the neigjhbor comes over and I shut the thing down ready for her next hibernation!
A few beers followed and some inventive story telling too, an hour later we come outside to where the boats parked and I notice this milky brown sludge draining out of a water overflow hole on the bottom half of the gearbox!
Looks like the boats given up doing anything over the holidays and needs the doc to re-do the seals on the lower box!
Any thoughts on this!  looks to me like water has mixed with the gear oil and has been doin so for some time, at no point did the gear box fail of even make the slightest noise or vibration! the sludge definately smells like gear lube so im convinced it is!
The motor is 2006 e-tec with about 310 hrs  still very young and fresh!  but after 11yrs of light use maybe she needs some surgery!

Offline crabby1

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Re: Uh Oh
« Reply #1 on: Mon 18 Sep 13:59 2017 »
Drop gearbox sump plug and turn prop.
See if milky stuff comes out.

Go from there.
Remove prop and fishing  line check but reckon  top seal leak.

Check can source seals before remove too much

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Offline Taylyn it

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Re: Uh Oh
« Reply #2 on: Mon 18 Sep 20:51 2017 »
That's a bit of a bummer mate, sounds like it will need a little work
Bretty.

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    Offline Spaniard_King

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    Re: Uh Oh
    « Reply #3 on: Tue 19 Sep 18:08 2017 »
    BB, I am interested to know how many times your gearbox has been removed for servicing in the time you owned it and how long since it was last done, Just currious with the etec  service interval and all
    Save $$$ on a new Honda 4 stroke outboard, call me 0400008507

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    Offline Blaster_Bretty

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    Re: Uh Oh
    « Reply #4 on: Fri 22 Sep 15:13 2017 »
    BB, I am interested to know how many times your gearbox has been removed for servicing in the time you owned it and how long since it was last done, Just currious with the etec  service interval and all
    my impellor was replaced about 2 yrs ago with its first service! I am the 3rd owner of this motor!  the ECU tells us that the injectors were replaced just shy of 200 hrs, it was then sold to the bloke I bought it off who said his boat was a tad small for a 60...... ?? so it came to me... I suspect that there may have been some gremlin in the motor which may have...may have contributed to him selling it to me coz those problems arose not long after I took hold of the motor, it still went great and it was used for a good 2 yrs before it played up, turned out the oil pump inside the oil resivoir was faulty and a new (2nd hand) oil tank ,which house's the pump and all sensors, went onto the motor and she hasnt missed a beat since then!!.... until now ha ha !!  but at the end of it all if I had some help  could save a few hundred by doing it myself but I would rather pay someone to do it properly and not have it cark out while on the water with mrs and kids!  just me thats all!

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    Offline crabby1

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    Re: Uh Oh
    « Reply #5 on: Fri 22 Sep 15:26 2017 »
    It worth checking the bearings while at it.
    Would just fit new ones anyway as cheap enough unless a special bearing.

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    Offline Blaster_Bretty

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    Re: Uh Oh
    « Reply #6 on: Mon 27 Nov 18:39 2017 »
    OK so the mechanic is way too busy and I cant wait any longer, Finally had some time to look into this gearbox in depth!
    I drained the gearbox completely only to see just clean water come out, followed towards the end by the milky sludge! there was no oil in the box at all IMO, I couldnt believe what I was looking at!
    I then wanted to see just how bad the gearbox was taking on water, I had some left over motor oil for the navara so I used that to flush out the sludge and then filled the gearbox with fresh motor oil so i could run the donk with the muffs on, And no I wouldnt use the motor oil as gearbox lube while on the water this was just to test it at home to get a better idea of where im at before I pull it apart!
    So with the gearbox now full of clean oil I put the muffs on and ran the motor for a good 10 minutes, occasionally shifting into forward and reverse, the box didnt sound too bad but it did have a small clicky knock every now and again,
    All up I would of had the motor in gear for about 5 of the 10 minutes it was running!
    Then the motor was left to drain of water and I removed the drain plugs to look at the oil!  Well "smack in the chops" the clean oil was now a milky sludge again, from only 5 minutes at slightly above idle with a couple of revs squirted in too!
    This I think cancells out the rear prop seal as the culprit and has me looking in the direction of the top seals in or around the impellor area??  Hmmmmm gonna be fun lookin anyways huh!
    any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated as im learning as I go!

    Offline mighty quinn

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    Re: Uh Oh
    « Reply #7 on: Mon 27 Nov 20:38 2017 »
    Yep stick to plan A and have a pro do the job.
    Cheers
    MQ.
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  • Offline mangajack

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    Re: Uh Oh
    « Reply #8 on: Tue 28 Nov 10:26 2017 »
    I went down this route early this year on my rude.
    I replaced all bearings and seals in the box.
    The culprit were both the prop end seal and the seal on the shaft under the water pump.
    Bit of a challenge to replace the vertical shaft seals without some special tooling but it is doable.
    I bought a second hand gearbox from a wrecker in case i needed new gears.
    My gears had surface rust but no pitting so i used them again.
    On the prop shaft the selector carriage slides on a spline and it has two ball bearings on a spring as the detent.
    Dis-assemble this part inside a plastic bag because the small ball bearings will shoot out as soon as the carriage clears the detent.
    Make sure you clean the spline inside the carriage and on the prop shaft well of any surface rust using a brass brush. This area does not get oil flowing through it so whatever rust you leave there will likely grow over time even being submerged in oil.
    Add some molybond to the box whist assembling then fill with oil.

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    Offline Blaster_Bretty

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    Re: Uh Oh
    « Reply #9 on: Wed 29 Nov 04:43 2017 »
    thanks mangajack!  exactly what I was after!
    I had 10 minutes spare last night so I removed the rest of the covers, have an early finish today and with the rain means all yard work is off, so the foots comming off this arvie!
    Also forgot to add the magnet on the bottom oil cap was clean, no metal collection, there was a very small amount of greyish black in the very end of the oil run out which would be wear on the gears from no oil but it was absolute minimal as in a 1/4 of a coke bottle cap, maybe not even that much!
    Thanks for the tip on the carriage selector too and the plastic bag trick!  will save what little hair I have left!

    Offline Blaster_Bretty

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    Re: Uh Oh
    « Reply #10 on: Wed 29 Nov 17:12 2017 »
    foots off now, heres a pic to see what you guys think!  the sludge has congregated towards the selector rod, dosnt seem to be any sign of sludge in the waterways!
    Ran a magnet over all the sludge and parts but nothing sticking to it, maybe the gears and stuff are all alloy or stainless??

    Offline Blaster_Bretty

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    Re: Uh Oh
    « Reply #11 on: Wed 29 Nov 18:53 2017 »
    ok so after old mate gerni gave us a hand to clean it all up, I found the cast selector rod cap has the collar decayed and missing! this used to sit around the stopper bush on the selector rod.  the rubber boot above the stopper bush is to be zippy tied tight to the decayed and missing collar, it serve's no purpose other than to stop dust n grease building up around and in the stopper bush hole!
    this isnt the cause of the oil in the water but it does tell me that the seal inside the selector rod housing is stuffed coz the rubber boot was full of sludge and junk, some of which im sure is more than a year old EeeeeK! it looks to have been push up into the cavity where the impellor case and the selector rod case are, this whole cavity is supposed to be oil and water free!
    The problem I think is still inside the impellor housing, somehow water is being mixed at a very high rate
    Im actually enjoying this repair now, was somewhat daunted at the start but so far things dont look too bad!.

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    Offline beach bum

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    Re: Uh Oh
    « Reply #12 on: Wed 29 Nov 19:25 2017 »
    Great work bretty. I hope it all goes well n you have a happy ending😎 nothing like pulling something apart n putting it back together to have some mechanical sympathy for a machine when your putting it in n out of gear n getting up on the plane in the future.
    Looking forward to the next trip

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    Offline mighty quinn

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    Re: Uh Oh
    « Reply #13 on: Wed 29 Nov 20:51 2017 »
    ok so after old mate gerni gave us a hand to clean it all up, I found the cast selector rod cap has the collar decayed and missing! this used to sit around the stopper bush on the selector rod.  the rubber boot above the stopper bush is to be zippy tied tight to the decayed and missing collar, it serve's no purpose other than to stop dust n grease building up around and in the stopper bush hole!
    this isnt the cause of the oil in the water but it does tell me that the seal inside the selector rod housing is stuffed coz the rubber boot was full of sludge and junk, some of which im sure is more than a year old EeeeeK! it looks to have been push up into the cavity where the impellor case and the selector rod case are, this whole cavity is supposed to be oil and water free!
    The problem I think is still inside the impellor housing, somehow water is being mixed at a very high rate
    Im actually enjoying this repair now, was somewhat daunted at the start but so far things dont look too bad!.
    Your going great.
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    Offline Blaster_Bretty

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    Re: Uh Oh
    « Reply #14 on: Mon 4 Dec 19:33 2017 »
    ok so my mechanic is back in business so ive decided it might be best to take the box down to him!  nothing lost here as I was off to surfers anyway to have lunch with mum so killed 2 birds with the one stone so to speak!
    showed him the pics, told him what i'd done and then he went over the box straight away!  his gearbox whispering tells him the gears are still meshing tight so I may have saved it!
    it turns out that copper stopper bush isnt that at all, it was the seal and is supposed to slide up n down the selector rod, it has a small o ring inside it and it sits tightly into the corroded and missing collar on top of the selector rod housing.
    He said the leak has been going on for a while as its the salt water that corrode's the casing over time and once it fell apart the water then rush's into the gearbox and mix's at a high rate!
    At this stage its looking to be only the seals and were gonna put a new impellor in as well!
    So glad i bit the bullet and got him to do it, I was headed in the right direction but my prognosis was a mile off the mark!..  at least now its gonna be done properly.
    couple of things he did mention though!
    1. using your boat only a few times a year is not a good thing!
    2. if you do use your boat only a few times a year then run it with the muffs on for 5-10 minutes every 2-3 weeks...not 2-3 months like I did!   it was the extended time in the shed that caused the seal to seize on the shaft and break the casing apart, it was gonna happen anyway but I hurried it up by not using the boat enough!.
    i'll let ya's know how she runs when I get the box back!

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